Weapons: Steampunk -AND- Spiritual

Ok. So we all know by now that the steampunks have steam-powered mecha suits. But, what do the spiritual's have to counter them. And by counter i dont mean directly counter, i mean the equivalence of them. I was thinking elementals. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elemental for those who don't know what they are.
And here are some examples (don't laugh at me):
https://www.coolstuffinc.com/images/Products/mtg%20art/Fifth%20Dawn/Spark_Elemental.jpg
http://www.coolstuffinc.com/images/Products/mtg%20art/Fifth%20Dawn/Plasma_Elemental.jpg
http://www.trollandtoad.com/images/products/pictures/112774.jpg
https://www.coolstuffinc.com/images/Products/mtg%20art/Odyssey/Ivy%20Elemental.jpg
http://www.coolstuffinc.com/images/Products/mtg%20art/Fifth%20Dawn/Tornado_Elemental.jpg
http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MAGPLACHA/dust_elemental.jpg

... nice job stealing pictures. xD;;

Yeah...his pirate class abilities are still at level 2. TwT

EcroXineoph wrote:

Yeah...he's pirate class abilities are still at level 2. TwT

I say, good woman! You make a Russian's grammar seem extraordinary! Off to the schoolyard with thee!

My idea and my basic design scheme was using a pressurize chamber that fires a ball or (for the sake of guns in modern) a bullet out of a barrel that is triggered by a valve, kind of like the Chemical Thrower from Bioshock. I am working of the gun draft now and the actually Ignos representative blueprints will come later. Some of the few features of the gun include....

• A Boiler Pack - From fist view this looked highly dangerous...Because it is. In times of war new weaponry is essential to progression, no matter the risk. It works basically by having a chamber of water that is constantly being heat from below. The escaping gas then vents into a filter chamber, to keep contaminates for destroying the rest of the weapon, the gases goes on to the Pressure Chamber.
  The boiler, at times, has malfunctions in which case the soldiers weapon will be rendered useless and has the chance to case harm to the wielder.(I'm sorry if is sounds a bit game-like but go with me on this.)
  
• Steam Pressure Propulsion- This keeps true to the base of the Ignos peoples' technology: Steam. By creating steaming in the Boiler Pack, the warrior can then power a bullet or ball out the barrel after being stored in the pressure chamber. However the down side to this method, at least in the first model produced, is that steam and its pressure is always being produced, meaning that by making too much pressure the weapon and the user to be destroyed or injured (More likely the first choice.) and is limited to th amount of water in the pack (Which will be fixed in the second version by a secondary valve in the next version of the weapon.)
  
• Pressure Chamber and Valve Trigger- By routing the steam from the Boiler through a hose and into the Pressure Chamber, a cylinder which holds the steam pressure to be fired by pulling open a valve the releases into the barrel. The valve release trigger lies just beyond the Pressure Chamber and once release will deliver the force onto the projectile down the barrel.
  
• The Loader- This was on of the most troubling thing for me t think of at the time. The loader as its name say loads something into the barrel. Looking at many times of loaders: Paintball gravity loaders where a ball falls into the barrel by gravity, Pump Loaders where you literally pull a bullet from a series of bullets in a long tube and sling the bullet into the barrel, Magazine feed where series of bullets and pushed in to the barrel by means of a coil or spring, all the way up to simple Muzzle feed. After much debate with myself I find decided on the Rambo like Pump Loader. Going more specific, a long tube running under the length of the barrel would have a series of bullets or bullets that would be pushed towards a ramp that leads to a hatch into the barrel right before the Valve Trigger. A shotgun like slide would control the opening the hatch, whereby if pushing it forward the hatched open and the bullet went through to the barrel and by pulling it back you close the hatch. There, if I could figure that out then Ignos best mechanical minds can strike on par with such genius.

This is the basic set up for the Ignos weapon which I have humbly named the Geval.( Which, Yes, is yet another modified word translation.) I you have any questions or the risks associated to the mechanism that could affect the comic's characters or plot,speak to me. Although hardly any of this information will be important to the comic but I just did this because it interested me. Yes I like engineering, and how things work. I'm kind of a gear head like that. I'm going to stop talking for awhile....-Yawn- Zzzzz.....

Yobun wrote:

My idea and my basic design scheme was using a pressurize chamber that fires a ball or (for the sake of guns in modern) a bullet out of a barrel that is triggered by a valve, kind of like the Chemical Thrower from Bioshock. I am working of the gun draft now and the actually Ignos representative blueprints will come later. Some of the few features of the gun include....

• A Boiler Pack - From fist view this looked highly dangerous...Because it is. In times of war new weaponry is essential to progression, no matter the risk. It works basically by having a chamber of water that is constantly being heat from below. The escaping gas then vents into a filter chamber, to keep contaminates for destroying the rest of the weapon, the gases goes on to the Pressure Chamber.
  The boiler, at times, has malfunctions in which case the soldiers weapon will be rendered useless and has the chance to case harm to the wielder.(I'm sorry if is sounds a bit game-like but go with me on this.)
  
• Steam Pressure Propulsion- This keeps true to the base of the Ignos peoples' technology: Steam. By creating steaming in the Boiler Pack, the warrior can then power a bullet or ball out the barrel after being stored in the pressure chamber. However the down side to this method, at least in the first model produced, is that steam and its pressure is always being produced, meaning that by making too much pressure the weapon and the user to be destroyed or injured (More likely the first choice.) and is limited to th amount of water in the pack (Which will be fixed in the second version by a secondary valve in the next version of the weapon.)
  
• Pressure Chamber and Valve Trigger- By routing the steam from the Boiler through a hose and into the Pressure Chamber, a cylinder which holds the steam pressure to be fired by pulling open a valve the releases into the barrel. The valve release trigger lies just beyond the Pressure Chamber and once release will deliver the force onto the projectile down the barrel.
  
• The Loader- This was on of the most troubling thing for me t think of at the time. The loader as its name say loads something into the barrel. Looking at many times of loaders: Paintball gravity loaders where a ball falls into the barrel by gravity, Pump Loaders where you literally pull a bullet from a series of bullets in a long tube and sling the bullet into the barrel, Magazine feed where series of bullets and pushed in to the barrel by means of a coil or spring, all the way up to simple Muzzle feed. After much debate with myself I find decided on the Rambo like Pump Loader. Going more specific, a long tube running under the length of the barrel would have a series of bullets or bullets that would be pushed towards a ramp that leads to a hatch into the barrel right before the Valve Trigger. A shotgun like slide would control the opening the hatch, whereby if pushing it forward the hatched open and the bullet went through to the barrel and by pulling it back you close the hatch. There, if I could figure that out then Ignos best mechanical minds can strike on par with such genius.

This is the basic set up for the Ignos weapon which I have humbly named the Geval.( Which, Yes, is yet another modified word translation.) I you have any questions or the risks associated to the mechanism that could affect the comic's characters or plot. Although hardly any of this information will important to the comic is still a bit beyond me. I just did this because it interested me. Yes I like engineering, and how things work. I'm kind of a gear head like that. I'm going to stop talking for awhile....-Yawn- Zzzzz.....

This was a fascinating read and I approve it all if it means anything.
The Geval is a brilliantly designed weapon. I just. Wow.

*goes to read again*

Yeah. What Fu said.

Seriously Ty, that was WIN! You are a nerdy gear head but we love it! Like seriously, that gun...man that's COOL! You're fraking brilliant with this stuff! You can be our weapons specialist if nothing else!

That musta taken a lot of time to think up and write down so major kudos man!

Kind of but not really. Took me an epiphany on the bus ride home, 30 minutes of making, a design (Still on bus.) and finally 3 hours of typing on the forum post reply screen making it more credibly, for the readers’ and my sake. Thank you for the kudos. I will keep them in my Kudos Jar however I think my cat will steal them anyway.

You should get a child safety lock for that jar. Not even dictator cats can get through child safety mechanisms. XDDD

That would only anger her. Cats have knowlegde of many power tools and low-yielding muclear devices. T_T

I can fix this.... Just But the jar in a dog costume.... that should work?

EcroXineoph wrote:

Yeah...he's pirate class abilities are still at level 2. TwT

*twitch* *twitch* I have just died a little on the inside because of this pluthura(sp?) if gramatical mistakes...

Cam11598 wrote:

EcroXineoph wrote:

Yeah...he's pirate class abilities are still at level 2. TwT

*twitch* *twitch* I have just died a little on the inside because of this pluthura(sp?) if gramatical mistakes...

Ok ok I fixed it. Geez! It's called a typo. I make them A -fraking- LOT! So get used to it y'all!

EcroXineoph wrote:

Cam11598 wrote:

EcroXineoph wrote:

Yeah...he's pirate class abilities are still at level 2. TwT

*twitch* *twitch* I have just died a little on the inside because of this pluthura(sp?) if gramatical mistakes...

Ok ok I fixed it. Geez! It's called a typo. I make them A -fraking- LOT! So get used to it y'all!

I'm guilty of the same thing, so. ;_;

Man, ty, you are made of awesome and win! The Geval could be the prototype weapon that kills Eltana in the beginning!

Fumagi wrote:

EcroXineoph wrote:

Cam11598 wrote:

EcroXineoph wrote:

Yeah...he's pirate class abilities are still at level 2. TwT

*twitch* *twitch* I have just died a little on the inside because of this pluthura(sp?) if gramatical mistakes...

Ok ok I fixed it. Geez! It's called a typo. I make them A -fraking- LOT! So get used to it y'all!

I'm guilty of the same thing, so. ;_;

I can't usually ever find any of the sort in my typing. =D

*death glare*

OK so for future note, (Ismael and Cam!) I'm kinda insecure about my poor spelling and get VERY flustered when I frak up with grammar. However, when I type my spelling/grammar get exponentially worse. So PLEASE, lay off.

EcroXineoph wrote:

*death glare*

OK so for future note, (Ismael and Cam!) I'm kinda insecure about my poor spelling and get VERY flustered when I frak up with grammar. However, when I type my spelling/grammar get exponentially worse. So PLEASE, lay off.

Aww... didn't mean to go thaaaaaat far with it.. sorry =/

you did know it's playful banter, nyet??

Okay... This a interesting question to ask on my part, since I have sided with the Ignos, but there haven't been any plans on the development or concept of Liber. weapons. I mean are they really going to the front lines with nothing but rocks and sticks along with a few magic tricks. C'mon people throw me a challenging bone attached to a jet so that I may chase it, get tired, develop a weapon, and pulverise the living -quack- out of that jet to get the bone!

Sorry about that.

To sum it up, just make an idea or and effort towards the Liber. weapons and techniques. Plz!

yeah, i would assume they have the knowledge to develop other weapons because they aren't so stereotypically indian xD;;

umm. Could we have them use animals like "cheetahs and elephants and secretary birds"?? *LOL I DIDN'T JUST GO TO THE WILD ANIMAL PARK. LEAVE ME ALONE*

proddings:

- how?
(are the animals intelligent? are they trained? what are their uses?)
(do they breed them? do they revere them?)
(what happens when a battle animal dies? It's not replaceable easily, I mean - it's like cutting down a tree, you have to wait a few years before a new tree will be fit to do anything.)

- if the animals are intelligent - secretary birds? - then that adds an element of magic to this that has been previously unexplored. How are they magical? Are they sentient or not? Are they pack animals or beasts of burden, and if neither they need to have a reason why they are allied with the Lib's.

- oh, so now they're /african/, I get it. *is shot*
okay, besides that, my real question here is a prodding to consider the land. So far it's a forest, and the climate has implied to be cold thus far (because of mountains, misty swamps, etc). Think about this and maybe elaborate with more suitable animals? Or an explanation of the real climate of the forest/possible-jungle. Remember, just because there is a schism between Ignos and Liberatia as nations doesn't mean that nature herself is in on it - think about the climates of area's around oceans and mountain ranges and swamps.

Sorry, not much to add besides devil's advocating.

Hell, someone's gotta do it. (Haha! Hell...get it? Like...the devil...and hell..and...*shot* ok I'm done. Honest.)

Aaaaaanyway, I kinda like the animal idea. I agree with Fu that it would have to be environmentally accurate (we just talked in anthro. about the fact that jungle changing to woodland is what sparked humans to evolve from apes so yeah, environment matters). So I'm kinda thinking along the lines of wolves (lol like early dogs. XD) or maybe falcons? I dunno...panthers possible? I think they're more jungle than forest but oh well. Overall, a cool idea. And I think the animals would probably be paired with a human (maybe the animal is given to a child at birth? maybe they have some spiritual bond that allows them to live as long as a human? maybe the two spirits are bound to each other so they would die together? maybe the animal and human are bound if they are born on the same day? WAY to many maybes...) kinda like the K-9 unit in the police and military, where not everyone in the force works with a dog but there is that special division. (Lemme know at any point if I'm not making sense. I'm kinda typing this stream of conscious style so...)

Another branch of this would be a spirit animal. Same thought apply but the animal would be all whispy and ghost-like. Maybe if we went this way we could give the animals some powers of their own.

Another consideration, one that has always been in the back of my head is they could (all or just a select few) have elemental powers. I'm thinking along the lines of bending (Avatar) but we could change it up and include more elements too. Like I said, this could be on a large scale (all liberacians can do it), or it could be a learned trait, or something a select few individuals are born with, or something reserved and only taught to a shaman-like class. Again, a lot of maybes. XD

My final two cent's worth here is that, if they're gonna be having animals, spirit animals, magic, etc., they should probably (just for fairness to the poor ignos) not have much advanced weaponry. Also (I know, Ismael you're trying to avoid the Indian stereotype but that is what they were originally based off of) they, so far, haven't shown much technological advancement past that of tribal, hunter-gatherer. Maybe...uh...what's the very next stage? I foget...agriculture and stuff...they could be there too I guess. But neither of those have very advanced weapons or tools - at least not in our sense of the word advanced.

*takes a deep breath* WHEW! Well, that turned out to be a mouthfull. And now I really SHOULD get back t my CW HW and, more importantly, my anthro essay. Again, sorry if some of this is kinda garbled and hard to follow. Any questions, feel free to ask and I'll do as best I can to clarify.

EcroXineoph wrote:

I think they're more jungle than forest but oh well.

Just remember that a jungle environment is usually warm, and there are few jungles that are naturally situated near mountains. Nearest I can think of is rainforests and certain areas of Africa. However, as you know, there aren't exactly mountain ranges in Africa, but more just sparse mountains. Ranges provide deserts through some effect I've forgotten the name of (I'll look it up in the morning), and shrubland, or forested regions (IE, rockies, alps, appalachians, etc etc).

EcroXineoph wrote:

And I think the animals would probably be paired with a human (maybe the animal is given to a child at birth? maybe they have some spiritual bond that allows them to live as long as a human? maybe the two spirits are bound to each other so they would die together? maybe the animal and human are bound if they are born on the same day? WAY to many maybes...) kinda like the K-9 unit in the police and military, where not everyone in the force works with a dog but there is that special division. (Lemme know at any point if I'm not making sense. I'm kinda typing this stream of conscious style so...)

Another branch of this would be a spirit animal. Same thought apply but the animal would be all whispy and ghost-like. Maybe if we went this way we could give the animals some powers of their own.

Problem with that is that these are /not/ disposable weapons. In war, you really need to have at least semi-disposable weapons, or some form of weapon that will not take years to acquire (such as another spirit animal). They would rapidly become outclassed by the Ignocians unless the Ignocian weapons were also horribly indispensable, in which case - god, the battles would still be slaughters. So much loss of life, simply from being without a weapon! The weapons themselves would become targets, and in any case it isn't as practical as having a disposable weapon.
What I'm saying is we need them to be fairly equal. If one is automatically better, there needs to be a reason why. (If you'd like to come up with an argument about why one should be more powerful than the other, be my guest. I already would like to see the Lib's with a great deal either more power, presdige, or structure then they currently have now, because Ignos has them beat on all three, simply from being more fleshed out. (See Ty's thread about the Ignocians for what I mean.)

EcroXineoph wrote:

Another consideration, one that has always been in the back of my head is they could (all or just a select few) have elemental powers. I'm thinking along the lines of bending (Avatar)

Can't we try something completely new? Instead of using something already established? I like elemental powers, but it needs to fit - it needs to mesh. It needs whos, whats, wheres, whens, whys, hows! Let's be creative, even though we are in school and it sucks up a lot of energy/creativity.

EcroXineoph wrote:

My final two cent's worth here is that, if they're gonna be having animals, spirit animals, magic, etc., they should probably (just for fairness to the poor ignos) not have much advanced weaponry.

Why?
Animals die. Once they die they are dead, and it takes at least a year for most of the suggested animals - big cats and dogs - to be of any use as a weapon of war. It's like sending a knight out on a horse without a sword or a pike. Even if the horse is particularly well trained, or perhaps sentient, one well aimed shot of a rifle would bring down both horse and rider (as you know, a fallen horse will sometimes crush the rider's legs/torso, killing them as well).
Spirit animals - maybe, if you're talking about it being unlimited in magic. And magic itself? Are we talking unlimited magic? I mean, I've never played any game where the players had unlimited magic I don't think, and I'm trying to think of any novel I've read where the user of magic doesn't at least get winded after a while after using it. Common "magical science" lore nowadays is that magic is a form of energy, and energy (in the human sense) is not infinite in any way. Even if the Libs have this, we haven't given them any sort of militia, any sort of military training - and as it stands they would be more quickly wiped out by the Ignos than the Native Americans by the Americans.

EcroXineoph wrote:

Also (I know, Ismael you're trying to avoid the Indian stereotype but that is what they were originally based off of) they, so far, haven't shown much technological advancement past that of tribal, hunter-gatherer. Maybe...uh...what's the very next stage? I foget...agriculture and stuff...they could be there too I guess. But neither of those have very advanced weapons or tools - at least not in our sense of the word advanced.

But that cripples them! There are so many benefits in war to an organized, advanced, industrial society! It would be placing the might of Rome against the Celts all over again - even their bravery and might in battle could not save them from Rome's sheer superiority, in weapons and armor and military tactics. The Libs need some sort of advantage somewhere, or really there will not be any war at all - just the systematic slaughter and takeover of the Libs. Well, if it was the real world, anyway - and we have to pretend that it is, because while we can ask the reader subtly to suspend their disbelief for things like magic and ghosts, it's a bit much to expect that the technologically backward Libs would stand even the slightest chance against the guns of the Ignos.

EcroXineoph wrote:

*takes a deep breath* WHEW! Well, that turned out to be a mouthfull.

My words exactly. I'm sorry if this is a bit much! It's the best I can do when I'm tired and stressed - pick apart things and look for holes to fill in, that's easy. I'm not attacking anyone here, just pointing out places that need rationalizing.

Have at it, then.

Yay criticism.

In order to limit the power of the Ignos party, we have come to an agreement that states.... -Pulls out a list. Beware!-

• Ingos weapons are at first horribly inaccurate, to start out and still moving into the future. This translating most towards the first weapon produced by Prof ******* (<-- Idk what to call him.), the Geval. This, although a weapon ahs many errors and minor health risks involved. One being, its the most inaccurate due to its use in round ball pellets, which like the musket need a few people to stand near one another to get any results. Second, the Geval propulsion system, upon further inspection is beautifully made for this kind of debate as its riddle with things that can go wrong, for example: Since it's attached to the boiler pack, its bulky and the user is prone to burns, aswell as overpressure explosions. Plus the time to make all of the parts are long as this is the first weapon of its type.
  
  
• Most of the weapon, aside from the Geval, are not produced until after the arrival of Prof. Nynat. Yes I know I'm dipping into the storyline a tad, but it helps us establish a rough sketched outline. Plus you may change the professor's name. I've just been reffering to him as the gear head in my head who helps me wtih this kind of stuff.

Going more into the timeline of the story, I deem that it is nesseary, for the sake of the Liber's, to for the first part of the war's history to give the Liber.'s the advantage of mobility, effecientence and power while granting the disadvantages of health risks, inaccuracy and production to the Ignos.

Here's a rough timeline that I can create this early. As always fell free to suggest anything for change.

Quote :

XXXX B.C.E - The two parties of man separate due to disagreement. Of what, I don't know, I'm just writing the damn thing.

XXXX B.C.E / XXXX C.E. - Time of advancement and peace for both parties. Again how, don't ask me.

XXXX C.E - Quiet Survellience of Ingos.-Liber. Border

XXXX C.E - Prof. ***** Creates the Geval. Invasion across border.

XXXX C.E - War starts

XXXX C.E - Few battles in which the Spirtual are superior. Ignos invasion are halted and repelled, skirmish between them decrease (Or stopped). (Meaning the Liber forces had the advantage and were able to repell the invaders. I took this from the Vietnam example in which the U.S. were ill-equip and enemies forces used guerrila tactics to defeat them, this drawing from the U.S. Revolution concept, where the Colonists used the terrian to outsmart the unknowing British. Get the picture?)

XXXX C.E - Prof. Nynat Creates Pressure Canister to replace the Boiler Pack. Mobility Increased for Troops while Amount of Power Decreased, plus lower death-rate. Boiler pack is then made into a field recharger device.

XXXX C.E - Ingos Gov. Funds Chemical Departments efforts toward frontline med's.

XXXX C.E - Prof. Nynat developed the Nepsin and shortly after the Blackshire aswell as developes the pointed bolt munition. Troop accuracy increases.

XXXX C.E - Chemical Department unviels the airborne irratant, Agony Fog. Military commission the Military Adaption Branch to the Chemical Department.

XXXX C.E - Recon Operation are taken across Liber. - Ingos. Border.

P.s About the font size. I found it easier to read for quote boxes, anyway.

Here is the timeline I compiled. Looking at it, I know it needs something and I know it lacks in many ways, but these were my present thoughts on the history concerning the Ignos; not so much the Liber's.
My thoughts according to this time line would be that the comic would start just before the second invasion effort made by the Ignos, but the time we start the comic isn't mine to choose.

As said before,
----------------Have at it, then.

Ok so my brain is WAY too dead to add anything productive right now but I just wanted to point out that in Fable II you do have unlimited magic. XDD;